D&D 5th Edition: Good Riddance Magic Item Economy
The Basic Fifth Edition rules of Dungeons and Dragons finally released! And there’s all kinds of goodies in that PDF, but I want to focus on this paragraph in the “Selling Treasure” section:
Magic Items
Selling magic items is problematic. Finding someone to buy a potion or a scroll isn’t too hard, but other items are out of the realm of most but the wealthiest nobles. Likewise, aside from a few common magic items, you normally won’t come across magic items or spells to purchase. The value of magic is far beyond simple gold and should always be treated as such.
What, exactly, does this mean? You know how if you crack open the 4th edition Players Handbook to any random page in the second half of the book, you would likely stumble upon a Sears and Roebuck catalog of magic items, each with a value, and a perfect ability for an exact leg of your adventuring career?
Yeah, that’s gone. Magic items are back in the DMG, to be hoarded over by stingy Dungeon Masters.
That decision is bound to confound many players who broke in their dice within the past decade and a half of the game. One third of the Player’s Handbook lopped clean off? For what? To add an air of vagueness about what magical items did, and how they operated? It’s an interesting idea perhaps, but modern role-playing philosophy dictates that the game should be focused around what the players want to get out of their game, not the Dungeon Master’s whims. And what many players want is the option to pour over magic item tables between sessions and work out an attack plan for what your character needs at certain stages of the game. Removing magic items from the Player’s Handbook only serves to tip the scales in favor of the Dungeon Master, who controls enough of the game already. If players are supposed to fight back against the grasping manipulations of their Game Master, then the Game Master shouldn’t get access to what’s written on the player’s character sheet. What’s the deal Wizards? I thought you represented the misfit outcasts. Why are you putting control back in the hands of the authority?
To answer that question, we need to step away from the table, and examine the history of the game. In Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax’s original vision, the Dungeon Master represented a guardian enforcer who couldn’t be questioned, but might be bribed with slices of pizza. In the 70s, when the very concept of role-playing games was groundbreaking, this made perfect sense. Many early players were still focused on the idea of ‘winning’ Dungeons and Dragons. Maybe not in the traditional sense, but it was important for early players to save the damsel in distress, beat the bad guy and be celebrated as heroes. As the sessions piled up week after week, and the traditional hero’s journey became passé, players focused on sculpting the most powerful character possible. These early players, sometimes only half-understanding the point of role-playing, often missed the point of the endeavor and would stretch any foothold of a rule into a bridge that allowed them to span the plot of the game to directly access their goals. In that environment, good Game Masters needed to step forward and squash disruptive plans, since circumventing the point of playing the game often results in there no longer being a game.
With time, players grew up, more was written and read about what makes an adventure great, and the game matured. Meanwhile, digital role-playing games fought for the attention of the dice and minis audience. But one of the big selling points table top rpgs held over their digital cousins is that the rules could always be bent, situation depending. In Skyrim, passing through a wall is a glitch. But in Dungeons and Dragons, the ability to supersede barriers and force Game Masters to think on their feet is a feature.
That’s not to say online gaming is inferior to table top gaming. In fact, many features from Final Fantasy and World of Warcraft dropped off the screen and landed back on the table, from different approaches to magic, to an increase in mini-quests and the parceling out of little achievements. And one of the easiest hacks when translating from table to video and back to table was the concept of a ‘magic item economy’. Some players respond well to gathering treasure and building on the value of your character over time. And one of the simplest ways to do that every time a checkpoint is met, is to offer an assortment of magical items to tweak the character’s abilities and functions. But if too many magic items are foisted on the players, then they lose their value, and an opportunity for advancement becomes wasted time. If those items could be traded in for a fraction of their cost, however, and those players could use cash earned to buy the items they needed right now, then every magic item becomes valuable once again.
We saw this resonate in Dungeons and Dragons 3.0. The Dungeon Master’s Guide included what Second Edition players would think of as extraordinary costs. A flaming, returning +1 dagger was equal to a +3 dagger, and worth 18,302 gold coins. Speaking from personal experience as a Dungeon Master, I didn’t noticed the difference at first. The decision to stick an arbitrary number next to a magic item was uninteresting to me. But as my players picked up the Dungeon Master’s Guide (a manual that used to be a secret codex for the Dungeon Master in the 80s, but became common knowledge with the advent of the internet, and the open-sourcing of Dungeon’s and Dragons) my players took notice that magic items were saddled with a cost. And whether or not I wanted a world flooded with magic items, it was going to happen. The door to fabulous cash prizes lay open, and I couldn’t stop my players from passing through to the other side without devolving the game into a stream of arguments, which could only lead to an end to the games altogether.
By the time Fourth Edition was published, the magic items section expanded and became a large chunk of the Player’s Manual, eliminating any chance for the Dungeon Master to appear even-handed if he ever threatened to somehow restrict the buying and selling of magic items. Magic items were now officially a part of character generation and advancement, and removing the entrenched system left the players too weak to fight encounters of their level. In fact, the Fourth Edition Dungeon Master’s Guide went so far as to tell the Dungeon Master to ask players for a wishlist of magic items they wanted to receive at various levels. That way, wish listed Hats of Disguise and +2 Arrow Deflection Bucklers could be casually tossed on top of the next treasure heap, like Christmas presents from an uninvolved parent who doesn’t know or care what his or her children want, as long as they’re happy.
The end result was that magic items were taken for granted. Instead of mysterious and potentially dangerous artifacts that forced the players to take extraordinary risks to acquire, magic items were commonplace claptrap that cluttered the character sheet with excess bookkeeping. In the Second Edition of the game, a whole adventure could be structured around unlocking the secrets of a mysterious fairy heirloom secreted for generations in a hidden abbey. By the time Fourth Edition rolled around, that kind of story would lose its impact. Who cared about a magic item that a player received at sixth level? By the time we finish this quest to figure out what it does, the players will be eighth level and need a more level appropriate magic item anyway. Might as well sell the thing and get it over with. And cursed magic items all but became extinct. A cursed item used to be a way to taunt the players when they proved too greedy. A cruel joke, but appreciated if it was well deserved. Giving a Fourth Edition player a cursed item was akin to serving a sandwich with a plastic tomato slice in it to a person on their twenty minute lunch break. All you get is an annoyed hungry person for your misguided attempt at humor.
The cruelest trick of all, though, is what this item management did to published adventures. Because instead of representing wild cards in the game, piles of min/maxing magic items became necessary to maintain game balance. A friend of a friend of mine told me that the tipping point for him was in Expedition to Demonweb Pits. In that adventure, the players encounter an Aspect of Yeenoghu, Demon Lord of Gnolls and the bestial embodiment of savage butchery.
It’s a climatic high in the book, pitting the adventurers against a major player in Lloth’s tangled web. So what’s the first thing the writers advise the Dungeon Master to do to reinforce in players’ minds the terror that is Yeenoghu?
Round one: Yeenoghu drinks a Potion of Bull’s Strength.
This is the exact opposite reason why many of us still choose to play tabletop roleplaying games. Dungeons and Dragons is supposed to be a series of exciting adventures filled with diabolical villains foiled by clever choices. Villains, especially endgame monstrosities, are supposed to take advantage of the existing rules to help seamlessly tell a story. The rules are there to serve the players and to settle arguments before they begin. Few, if any characters, should become slaves to the game—chess pieces incapable of moving beyond their boundaries. As soon as a non-player character does anything other than act within the bounds of its personality, much of the point for playing Dungeons and Dragons over other tactical miniatures games is lost.
So good-bye magic item vendors with more cash on hand than the entire kingdom they settled in. You were fine as a joke concept, but the joke got old fast. And good-bye abusing magic items as a crutch for game balance, or as a deus ex carceri device. Good-bye snowplowing through treasure hordes to get to the plot points. Good-bye mendacity and predictability. Security blankets may be what players want, but it isn’t why they play.
Good riddance paying 18,032 gold coins for a flaming, returning +1 dagger. I sure hope you never come back.
if you see the DM of the game someone to fight back against you need a new DM. The DM is not supposed to do everything in their power to make playing difficult. They are supposed to provide fun adventures to a group of players. That’s it. They tell you what you encounter and try and give you a fun time. If your local DM is abusing their powers get a new one.
It sounds more like you should change your viewpoint as a player and stop thinking it is you vs. DM. The DM, as it is clearly stated in about every edition of DnD is a referee to your game. He needs to have all the secrets you don’t, as a player, know, because it is like Myth said, his job to make a fun adventure for your guys and for some people, part of that fun is obtaining magic items. But 5E focus isn’t about stacking items and feats to make the biggest, baddest power character you can make. It is about roleplay, as DnD should be. Magic items are an added bonus to an already great game setting and you should never feel entitled to have certain or any magic items for that matter. And any DM worth his salt will run an adventure you are capable of handling based on the skill of the players, the level of the characters, and the amount (or lack of) magic items that help the characters along the way. So you shouldn’t worry so much. Just relax and enjoy and if your DM is making it this “me vs. them” scenario, then you definitely need to find a better DM,
I know it’s been a while, but I think the previous commenters didn’t read your article very well. It feels like they read your first comments about the role of the player & DM, got mad like me, and then stopped reading. They never got to the point of your article that shows you don’t actually view it as Player vs DM. That is always one of the dangers of starting off an article as though you hold an opinion that you don’t actually believe. It’s cool when readers hit the twist, but it can quickly alienate many readers.
Those two comments are an odd holdover. Originally, this article stopped at the end of the first paragraph with a redirect to keep reading at the Power to the Meeple website. In the comment section on that website, a very lively conversation was happening. But then the website crashed, and I was forced to resurrect the original version of the article on my site.
So, yeah, those two posts are from people who didn’t hit the link, and only read the very beginning. Most people did read all the way through… we got a total of maybe 15 comments on this article at Power the Meeple.
It proved interesting. And I really appreciated the commentors that did’t agree with me on this issue chiming in. Unfortunately, when writing an article like this, I can’t bring up legitimate complaints with my own opinion… I mean, I could, but it’s confusing to the reader and makes (I think) a less entertaining read. The dissenting opinions in the comment section do a good job rounding out the article. It’s a shame we couldn’t keep them.
As a DM, I find the lack of magic item economy (and by extension, lack of appropriate short term goals my players would set for themselves) to be a hinderance in a longer running campaign I’ve begun. We’ve had ~34 sessions at this point where players are around level 8 and their level acquisition is slowing down. In previous games where I was either a DM or a player, players would be making short term goals on what item they were going to attempt to find in town, roleplay on haggling or offering up other items to convince the merchant in approving the sale. Sometimes attempt to steal the item with great success (or hilariously bad failure).
In 5e, we have none of that. We, as a group, decided when reading through the DMG as they were rolling their characters that we would play by RAW without a magic item economy. In addition, we use the percentile tables to get randomized loot at the end of dungeons or important plot scenes to play the edition as it was designed. By ‘luck of the roll’ most items that drop are sadly completely ignored, or used situationally as a happenstance, because they have no interest in the randomized loot. Normally this wouldn’t be an issue, and in fact would still make for interesting scenes and interactions as they would desperately try to hang on to magical items because it presented as a very real means of acquiring items that they valued.
I could break away from the randomized tables (now that players have a much greater chance at finding 0 worth in the process), however my players also have no interest in what to use with their non-item wealth they’ve been accruing. One player bought a castle that he doesn’t visit (and confided he just wanted to spend his gold on anything) because he was lucky enough to find (and hide from the party) an incredibly rare item that dropped in a treasure horde where he (and luckily the other party members otherwise I imagine a meta-game argument would have played out) had no use for it.
Two other players are playing characters who are career adventurers so they have no desire to purchase any land or objects that wouldn’t in turn help them in this pursuit, so they bought a pack horse and ox to help them carry treasure (which we had a laugh when another player criticized the purchase – commenting on their ability to now hold more coin that they have no plans on spending). One player has been giving his old away to the homeless because it fits his character, and confided in the party that as a player he doesn’t feel like losing gold is an actual loss. We delved in to the living expense rules presented in the DMG where they could pay for living accomodations/travel expenses/etc, but that got quickly thrown out as players mentioned it just felt like they were being taxed.
I’ve attempted to present them with followers they could spend their money on, land/structures to purchase and tend, city-state standing, horses (which as I detailed above some purchased), however not only are the players not interested in non-adventuring purchases but admittedly it truly doesn’t fit their character motivations either.
The group appears to be enjoying the campaign, the plot, the struggle, heroic moments, and the downtime RP we participate in, however they are sorely missing the lack of economic aspect to the game where they can develop their characters statistically. I really wish WotC had given rules for the economy in the DMG and just detailed variant rules for high and low item settings.
It seems like WotC chose to take the choice out of the DM’s hands (unless they wanted to write their own rules on the economy) because other DMs didn’t have the backbone to tell their players that they wanted their games to be low item. I feel like I’m going to have to write my own rules for rarity, finding sellers, material price, etc. so my players can feel like their characters are progressing beyond just the typical class-path, which is going to hamstring my ability to provide story content for my group.
So far this is the least attractive feature of 5e for my group and I.
As a general rule, this is a pretty strong counter-argument. It hasn’t been my experience… haggling in game is something my players tend to enjoy, so the idea of turning in all those ‘useless’ magic items for a +2 Longsword can make a nice side quest. But I can definitely appreciate the idea of a group just having no interest in that. Either add the economy or don’t, you’re bound to upset some play group.
That said, I don’t think ‘not liking to tell the players they want the game to be low item’ is the same as ‘DMs that have no backbone’. Try telling your players that you won’t be using the rules for Magic, or Classes and you can imagine the sort of backlash you can expect to receive. As it stands, WotC took half measures with Feats… I get the impressions they wanted to ditch them, but felt the backlash would be too great so they kept them in the book as an optional rule. To a player, more options are always better. My group was polite enough to ask, but many groups will just expect the optional rules that benefit them are turned on. With players like that, trying to take away something printed in the book is like forcing the toothpaste back in the tube. You can probably do it with enough ingenuity, but it isn’t worth the day’s argument and an entire campaign of bad feelings. I’ve lost players over stupider things than that.
Personally, I’d love to see some third party company tackle the concept of a Magic item economy. That way the idea is out there, and any DM can pick it up, but the players don’t make assumptions about their privileges as characters. And if a DM is working with the third party book and decides he doesn’t like it, he/she can just dump it. Makes me wish I didn’t have ten other writing projects on queque.
That’s fair, and I apologize for using your blog as a podium for my rant. I completely understand the desire for DMs to provide a positive experience, and there is a fear present when describing setting desires to a group – especially if it’s a new group. I can’t say in my playing or DMing that I’ve been in a situation where the players persisted beyond ‘DM Judgement’, so it’s probably irregularly easy for me to say ‘just tell the players it’s a low-item setting’ since we’ve played with these variants before.
We’re taking a break from the game this week, and we’re collaborating on rules/formulas in determining ‘magic item’ related purchases/maintenance/brokering/etc. that we’ll likely use for our future 5e campaigns/updating splats from previous editions. I won’t lie, we’re generally bitter that we have to do this – lamenting that it feels as if WotC simply omitted rules or released a partially incomplete product (especially considering items apparently get lost to the void once sold since there are rules for selling but no rules for buying). This felt like an opportunity to have variant rules, instead of presuming to remove the economy of every setting in the multiverse.
Been a long time since this edition got out and I finaly have the opportunity to try it… or not
Well, this draws the line between players who want to play 3.5/Pathfinder and others.
I’ll stay were I am with my magic items creation formulas that gave me so much fun.
Bye bye V5 and your magic and wizards racism !